Why Cipsoft does not give to us full information regarding changes made in the game?

Question

Hey everyone, one thing that really bothered me recently: Why Cipsoft does not tend to publish the exactly changes made in the game usually?

I've seen it before, when there is a nerf change or a experience change, I feel that the company purposedly does not publishes all of the details of the changes. This really bothers me because on several games you can read the description of changes executed with a high level of details. I don't really see on why Cipsoft tends to release vague information regarding changes.

A great and recent example would be the change related to the last game patch, with several monsters that had their loot or xp altered: https://www.tibia.com/forum/?action=announcement&announcementid=98&boardid=89516

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Hunting Ground	New Focus	Change in Gold Gain	Change in XP Gain	Affected Monsters
Grounds of Plague	Gold XP	moderate decrease	significant decrease slight decrease	Grimeleech Hellflayer Plaguesmith
Grounds of Destruction	Gold XP	slight decrease moderate decrease	significant decrease slight decrease	Hellflayer Juggernaut Vexclaw Fury
Secret Library	XP	moderate decrease	slight decrease	Rage Squid Burning Book Guardian of Tales Icecold Book Suid Warden Animated Feather Biting Book Energetic Book Energuardian of Tales Ink Blob Brain Squid Knowledge Elemental Cursed Book
Deep Desert	Gold	no change	moderate decrease	Skeleton Elite Warrior1 Undead Elite Gladiator2
Grounds of Damnation	Gold XP	moderate decrease significant decrease	significant decrease slight decrease	Grimeleech Hellflayer Vexclaw Dark Torturer
Asura Palace	XP	moderate decrease	no change	Hellspawn Dawnfire Asura Midnight Asura Hellhound
Grounds of Despair	Gold XP	slight decrease moderate decrease	moderate decrease slight decrease	Grimeleech Hellflayer Vexclaw Spectre
Rathleton Catacombs	XP	moderate decrease	slight decrease no change (apart from slightly decreased Hellhound)	Juggernaut Hellspawn Destroyer Grim Reaper Dark Torturer Glooth Golem Rustheap Golem War Golem Hellhound
Lower Glooth Factory	Gold	moderate decrease	moderate decrease	Glooth Golem Metal Gargoyle Rustheap Golem War Golem Devourer Glooth Anemone
Carnivora's Rocks	Gold	moderate decrease	moderate decrease	Spiky Carnivor Menacing Carnivor Lumbering Carnivor
Halls of Ascension	Gold XP	slight decrease moderate decrease	significant decrease slight decrease	Grimeleech Hellflayer Juggernaut Plaguesmith Vexclaw Dark Torturer Fury Hellhound
Grounds of Fire	Gold XP	slight decrease moderate decrease	significant decrease slight decrease	Vexclaw Hellflayer Grimeleech Fury Hellfire Fighter Hellhound
Nightmare Isles	XP	moderate decrease	no change	Choking Fear Retching Horror Silencer
Lower Roshamuul	XP	moderate decrease	no change	Silencer Frazzlemaw Guzzlemaw Choking Fear Retching Horror
Ancient Ancestorial Grounds	XP	moderate decrease	no change	Deathling Scout Deathling Spellsinger
Buried Cathedral	XP	moderate decrease	no change	Arachnophobica Gazer Spectre Burster Spectre Ripper Spectre
Dream Labyrinth	XP	moderate decrease	no change	Crazed Winter Rearguard Crazed Winter Vanguard Crazed Summer Rearguard Crazed Summer Vanguard Arachnophobica Insane Siren
Lower Glooth Factory South	XP	moderate decrease	slight decrease	Glooth Golem Metal Gargoyle Rustheap Golem War Golem
Oramond Mountain Hideout	Gold	slight decrease	moderate decrease slight decrease	Fury Spectre Nightmare Dark Torturer
Lower Glooth Factory West	XP	slight decrease	slight decrease	Glooth Anemone Glooth Golem Devourer Metal Gargoyle Rustheap Golem War Golem

¹ From now on walks also across earth fields.

² From now on walks also across energy fields.

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In the post above made by Skeerio (community Manager), Cipsoft AVOIDS mentioning the exactly number, which would be a much more simple way of explaining what happened after the update.

Even worse than that, after changing for the first time, they did ANOTHER extra change and didn't bothered again on inserting the correct experience value of each mob.

Anyway, is there any place where a CM explain on why we have to request sometimes basic information related to changes instead of having it served to us?

Comments

Yes, it really makes me angry. What the "moderate decrease" means?  They should give numbers to us.

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That's a very vague and hard to answer question. In my view this question is not suitable for TibiaQA. We should answer questions about the game Tibia not questions about how CIP works. We can see the most of the info in the bestiary so they're not hiding the info, it was a bad written or compact topic made by them.

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I don't think so. Cipsoft makes the rules and adjustments of the game, so knowing beforehand in an easy and simple way what is going on in Tibia when browsing *Tibia.com* is crucial for a good gaming experience in my opinion. They do terrible changelogs regarding the game (it is a historical fact, which I can go on even further) and it makes the game more clunky and obscure for casuals and newcommers. They need to dig in official fansites/friends/whatever to understand what Cipsoft means by "moderate decrease of XP in Insane Siren".

Frankly, it is one of the most honest questions that I've ever made. I really want to know if there is a valid reason on why Tibia is so hard to understand in their own official website. 100% relatable issue. Maybe a CM explained in the past that they want this way for some reason, but I was not able to find any info about it.

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Well i think it one of the best questions on TibiaQA, since all questions we are doing is "How to get", etc. Maybe you should add opinion based tag, but it's up to you. After last update/patch I can really understand you and your question...

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I think it's not even about the question being opinion-based, it's about the fact that you can't really answer a question saying "Why do they do this and that this way". I mean how can you answer this? It's not like you are inside their heads or you are present on their meetings to hear about the policy of the upcoming changes.
I agree tho that the way Cipsoft does things is ridiculous.

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I guess that there is a lack of understanding on why I did this by some users. I really want to know if EVER we had OFFICIAL material explaining on WHY Cipsoft does NOT release detailed logs when changing stuff. Sometimes people need to BEG to CMs for info and this is baffling for a somewhat expensive MMORPG game with more than 20 years of activity. It is not a opinion based, I want "rational evidence", if that makes sense. Maybe they want to make mystery? I don't know. There must be a reason that was skipped somewhere. Official forum posts, support answers, tickets, etc

If the community does not want such question because "opinion based", I can remove it. But please remember to read carefully about what are our latest policies for opinion based questions: https://meta.tibiaqa.com/1245/opinion-based-tag-will-be-removed-in-the-near-future?show=1245#q1245

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Perhaps there's an official statement on why they don't always give full details. I believe this question can be answered in a non-opinion-based way. If you want to continue discussing if questions more related to CipSoft and their actions/decisions should be allowed, I invite you to start a topic on Meta. Thanks for eager discussion on this!

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Thanks Ellotris. I respect and liked the input by Lilly and Artur, just to make it clear ^^ if people feel that the quality is bad, I can hide it.

But my main point is that I think that perhaps Cipsoft has a policy of "game mystery" that somehow might be a reminiscient of the beginning of the game, where stuff was mostly hidden and figuring out everything was part of the game. But I cannot find any evidence supporting my claim, since Tibia changed basically everything since the late 90's when all of it started. It is my opinion. I want a ticker, ticket, forum post, etc where we can understand on why Cipsoft does things that way, not an opinion. Just to be clear!

Cya!

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CipSoft don't give a f* about his players, they don't respect us. While we are suffering with this messed up patch, they post a picture of an anatomy of a rotworm on facebook. It's just ridiculous

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I understand your anger. To be honest, they did probably the most game changing thing ever made this week if we think about. Weird that they did not made a more detailed explanation with numbers and such... I will try to investigate that.

Answer 1

Coming from my experience over the years as a fansite collaborator and owner, I've never seen them replying this question specifically. They always give open answers to questions like this when asked or they just referred to the specific topic being treated. Though they do follow a pattern of saying they have the right to reserve private information for the sake of change development. They also use the same answers on these questions when addressed on private forums like Focus group threads which I have belonged to for a couple of years. I've asked other fellow fansite owners and experienced friends and they said the same. It is quite difficult to maintain the answer of this question not opinion-based cause like I said most things I'm answering here come from my experience and the question itself is opinion-based since you don't actually know whether there was or wasn't an official statement on this over the years. With only an exhaustive investigation work on forums which might lead to nothing since the forum refreshes and delete old posts. It's the only way to answer this question the way you want it to be answered. So there might not be enough evidence on the forums for this and not many people are willing to do all that. So I'm going to base on my experience. There's no actual reason or official statement on this but I do think and it is a popular opinion they do it to avoid causing controversy and to avoid being biased in the terms of coming up with a difficult to implement change. Cipsoft rarely, to never, have backed down on a change they announce and are about to implement. They never blatantly recognized they made a mistake and they pretty much keep to the agenda of having the right of preserve this information from the public and assure they are working to please everyone.

EDIT: I really wish you changed your mind on the opinion based thing. I could give you a better explanation on things and to my eyes a more satisfying answer on this interesting topic

Comments

First, I appreciate your answer to this topic. thank you.

Having a research conducted on old news or forums is not really impossible neither is unacceptable to ask about.

Regarding the whole "opinion based" issue, please consider reading the thread: https://meta.tibiaqa.com/1245/opinion-based-tag-will-be-removed-in-the-near-future?show=1245#q1245

This whole issue of opinion based caused a lot of debate and controversy in the past and I kind of understand on why we had this problem in this thread. I am actually currently trying to search for an answer for my own question here. I don't want to turn this into a thread of pure opinions

Yes, I have a personal opinion regarding this fact, but as I said, I don't want to turn this question in a simple matter of opinion. By the tone that I used to post this thread, it is mildly obvious for the readers on what would be my opinion about Cipsoft policy. But as I tried to write over there, sometimes Cipsoft may reveal more exactly on why some stuff tend to happen in a certain way. Cipsoft explained in a detailed news in the past on why some Quests are left without answers, not only that, Knightmare itself talked about the subject more than once.

Last, seeing that you can have an evidence AND an opinion at the same time in an answer (technically, we can say that your experience would be a way to make your assertions solid), having something solid as that ALONG with an opinion would not be bad at all.

Of course, it all depends on how you will insert an opinion inside an answer with a statement or text written by Cipsoft. Analysis made by people on Focus Group or even a time where people asked "Why Cipsoft does not inform about X?" and got a answer would be an interesting way of conducting an answer for what I am expecting.

Answer 2

Well, we had something great recently. Cipsoft made a big and consistent chart with all of the changes made in the game! I never saw such level of details regarding a change. It seems good and how it should be in my opinion. You can read the full list of changes with dates in this link: https://www.tibia.com/forum/?action=announcement&announcementid=98&boardid=89516

This can be an indication that Cipsoft is changing their historical policy regarding game information, adding more details when making changes. The community is also approving the fact that Cipsoft reviewed changes made recently since the start of the rebalancement. Here is some of the charts informing the players about the changes:

Changes from 12.02.2020

Creature	Change in Drop Chance	New XP (Old XP)
metal gargoyle	+15%	1278 (1022)
rustheap golem	+15%	2100 (1679)
war golem	+50%	2310 (2008)
glooth anemone	no change	1755 (1404)
devourer	no change	1755 (1404)
frazzlemaw	+30%	3740 (3400)
guzzlemaw	+30%	6050 (5500)

Changes from 07.02.2020

Creature	Change in Drop Chance	New XP (Old XP)
falcon knight	+20%	4500 (7500)
falcon paladin	+20%	4920 (8200)
cobra assassin	+150%	7560 (6300)
cobra scout	+150%	7920 (6600)
cobra vizier1	+150%	7920 (6600)
menacing carnivor	no change	1920 (1600)
spiky carnivor	no change	1500 (1250)
lumbering carnivor	no change	1320 (1100)
choking fear	+30%	no change
retching horror	+30%	no change
reality reaver	no change	2480 (3100)
dread intruder	no change	2400 (3000)
breach brood	no change	1760 (2200)
sparkion	no change	1520 (1900)

^{1 Chain lightning damage reduced from ~700 to ~600}

Changes from 04.02.2020

Creature	Change in Drop Chance	New XP (Old XP)
Plaguesmith	+46%	no change
Grimeleech	+54%	no change
Dark Torturer	+456%	no change
Grim Reaper	+96%	no change
Glooth Golem	+49%	no change
Silencer	+100%	no change
Crazed Winter Vanguard	+46%	no change
Crazed Winter Rearguard	+46%	no change
Crazed Summer Vanguard	+46%	no change
Crazed Summer Rearguard	+46%	no change
True Dawnfire Asura	no change	5980 (9200)
True Midnight Asura	no change	5850 (9000)
True Frost Flower Asura	no change	5655 (8700)

Changes from 30.01.2020

Creature	Change in Drop Chance	New XP (Old XP)
Plaguesmith	-18%	3555 (1350)
Grimeleech	-51%	6560 (2870)
Hellflayer	-51%	10000 (4375)
Vexclaw	-51%	5680 (2485)
Juggernaut	-49%	11200 (4900)
Dark Torturer	-55%	4650 (2651)
Spectre	+20%	no change
Fury	no change	3600 (1575)
Hellfire Fighter	no change	3120 (1365)
Hellhound	no change	5440 (2380)
Nightmare	no change	1656 (817)

I also asked on a Support Ticket about the question that I did here. Got this answer:

Hello,

Thanks for your thoughts about this subject. I appreciate your explanation about why you think that there's still room for improvement. By the way this topic is currently discussed on our Auditorium board.

In the corresponding thread you'll get answers to your questions and you can post your feedback. Our community managers reply regularly. 

Thanks again for taking the time to contact us! We always appreciate feedback and suggestions.

Kind regards,
Leomax
Tibia Customer Support

Comments

UPDATE: Cipsoft also made a list with changes made when you log in! Seems an excellent start for tibians! Everyone can check what changed once logged in Tibia!

Answer 3

Ultimately, this depends on what's being changed so it all depends on the situation. I dug through some responses about this topic and found this post by Mirade in 2013 (I know it's not recent, but it's helpful):

As we already explained in the past, we usually inform players about changes which are relevant and interesting for the community but we won't announce each and every detail, especially not if extensive, complex explanations are necessary (e.g. considerable background information about technical infrastructure or the code is needed to understand what was done and why, yet most players will not even notice a change). Also, some information is confidential. Last but not least, only small groups of players (e.g. some tutors) are interested in details while the majority is usually satisfied with the most relevant changes. You can ask on the [forums] if further details are available for you to know but there won't be detailed patch notes with all changes in the news. We don't have the resources for that, and it is not considered a high priority topic.

Source: https://www.tibia.com/forum/?action=thread&postid=34506362#post34506362

Comments

Interesting! But I found the recent information released to the public something like a landmark for Tibia, because we never had such good access to information (like a window opening every time you log in). Anyway, thanks a lot for the contribution!